Cameron Giovanelli, 42, pleaded guilty Wednesday to fourth-degree sex offense and second-degree assault charges as part of a deal that dropped charges including sexual abuse of a minor . I agree that churches shouldnt cover up crimes like this and Im glad we agree that the other pastor should have immediately gone to the police. Motion to Dismiss#1 Complaint by Cameron Giovanelli, Sarah Giovanelli. On this point, I stand with Pastor Shiflett. Unresolved: Release in which this issue/RFE will be addressed. Way to go NVBC on another cover up! This church and school is a kind of spin-off of HAC and FBCHammond (Trieber, the church's pastor and the college's chancellor is a HAC grad). I would suggest that the faith you refer to is really you, a character that is to be admired for standing alone against abusers. This is perhaps the best way to make churches accountable for what takes place on their watch. Lets hope thats not the case. Many of the laws in Many states relating to sexual assault are Horrifyingly minimal in the consequences to the offender. Today, Giovanelli pleaded guilty to a fourth-degree sex offense and second-degree assault. Dr. Jack Trieber takes you through. Hear powerful preaching from mighty men of God from the past! (Randy Vazquez/ Bay Area . IMHO, Bruce is right to say Christianity is a religion like any other. Jack Hyles built the foundation of the modern IFB movement. Does anyone know why Pastor Shifletts video was removed? FEB 3, 2023; Striving for Revival - Acts 2 - February 3, 2023 . Florida, Jacksonville Division. Neal, himself, was caught up in a sex scandal in 2011 when he was accused of video voyeurism. Giovanelli voluntarily turned himself in to police Tuesday. On this point, I stand with Pastor Shiflett. I know this blog has high traffic numbers, and leveraging this traffic to expose alleged sexual abuse seems, at least to me, to be something I can and must do. As far as guilt or due process is concerned, thats for the courts to decide. I know one thing for certain, IFB Christians are the nastiest, most violent people I have ever dealt with on this blog. A defamation lawsuit has been filed against Cameron Giovanelli, his wife, Sarah Giovanelli, and Immanuel Baptist Church by survivor Sarah Jackson. Neal is a graduate of Hyles-Anderson College. And PLEASE I beg you, do anything you can to help THE VICTIM of any abuse that you know about. ! UPDATE: Ex-Missionary Jordan Webb Webb was arrested on April 25 at the Fort Dodge home of Cameron Giovanelli, a registered sex offender. It is, like all others, built on the Tree of Knowledge Jesus did not come to give knowledge, but life. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. And none of this is in the NT bible. See his Twitter for more info confirming this. A bath every day, always use deodorant ? It was a terrible shock! He pastored a growing church on the east coast for eleven years before accepting a position at his alma mater as the president. (via Twitter). Phoenix, AZ 85086. Giovanellis name has been scrubbed from Golden States website. We produce books, curriculums, CDs, and many other Christian resources for you and your ministry. He was released on his own recognizance at an initial bail hearing under the condition that he have no contact with any minor. Playing the true Christianity is not a religion wont work here. The charges against Webb came on the tail of a complaint to the Webster County Sheriff's Office about Cameron Shane Giovanelli, an Independent Fundamental Baptist preacher who was a new. If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. Cameron Giovanelli Resigns From Golden State Baptist College. Immerse yourself in college life by attending classes, joining chapel, meeting students and staff, and making new friends. Now, it seems, they have their own scandal. . Thank you for your perspective AND for taking the initiative to look into Maryland laws. Golden State Baptist College released the following statement: It has come to our attention that allegations of inappropriate conduct have been made against Cameron Giovanelli, a member of our staff. No clergy from other faiths are included in this list at this time. yourfortdodge.com/church-mission messengernews.net/news/local-new 1:09 4.1K views Quote Tweet Des Moines Register I appreciate you looking up the laws and seeing the legality of the issue at hand! Churches are businesses. There, in that harm, lie the feelings that can free you. The Ministry is the company. Independent Baptist Churches General Baptist Churches Churches & Places of Worship. You suffered harm by needing to become addicted and that happened because _______. The Members are the customers. (Please see Black Collar Crime: Pastor Cameron Giovanelli Resurrects From the Dead, Found in Florida), In August 2019, Giovanelli was charged by Baltimore, Maryland County police with sexual abuse of a minor and several other sex crimes. Also I believe the statue of limitations of this crime said it was one year after offense occurred which would have ran out 11 years ago. I have no doubt that a number IFB pastors and churches will recommend North Florida Baptist College to its students. (BGR) September 23, 2020: Filing 6 . Thank you for your comment!!! cameron giovanelli north valley baptist church pisces april 2021 horoscope susan miller aspen dental refund processing . Dont give in to terrible sadness just because you make a mistake in life or see yourself failing at something. (WJZ) Cameron Giovanelli, a former Baptist preacher, was quiet and subdued as he entered guilty pleas to a fourth-degree sex offense and second-degree assault on Wednesday. I think they handled it as best they could under the circumstances you stated. Calvary Baptist Church, Dover, Delaware. Its kind of a lose-lose situation for them because they wanted to address the situation and not make it look like they were trying to cover it up (to me I really dont think they are doing that since he doesnt work there anymore and I think I read hes been banned from coming to the church), but they cant just say hes guilty and all that on a nation stream when the courts havent proven that yet. All they could do is make sure he was fired / resigned and was no longer working their. Game over Pastor. As you do, Id love to see the IFB church movement, along with Evangelicalism burn to the ground. but these people dont realize that in thia case, theres not a whole lot that NVBC could have done other than fire him / force his resignation which occurred fairly promptly. Kudos for speaking the truth and letting the shit land where it may. as far as Giovanelli not being able to work with children again, i agree, he shouldnt be able to. Cameron Giovanelli, Immanuel Baptist Church and Sarah Giovanelli: Case Number: 3:2020cv01060: Filed: September 22, 2020: Court: US District Court for the Middle District of Florida: Presiding Judge: . If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. We actually know how to read. More Courses View Course Black Collar Crime: IFB Preacher Cameron Giovanelli Pleads . I. also in regards to IFB pastors going on to pastor other churches etc: It has come to our attention that allegations of inappropriate conduct have been made against Cameron Giovanelli, a member of our staff. Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. I just hope they can have closure over what has occurred since I will be surprised if the Maryland DA will charge him with anything. It served its purpose. As I perused North Florida Baptist Colleges twitter account, I noticed that IFB luminary Bob Gray, Sr. is a follower. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. cameron giovanelli, the president of golden state baptist college an independent fundamentalist baptist (ifb) institution operated by pastor jack trieber and north valley baptist church in santa clara, california, stands accused of repeatedly sexually assaulting a church teenager when he was the pastor of calvary baptist church in dundalk, Reacting to North Valley Baptist Church "Camp Meeting" Pastor's Conference (PB LIVE 06/19/21) Go to episode . Subscribe to get sermons weekly that will challenge, inspire, convict, and help you. Ask yourself the logical question, why is this coming out now? We all mess up! Theres no shame in some IFB circles. Visit. The churchs insurance company paid out a hefty settlement. October 23, 2022 - Melisa Ortiz Berry Galatians 3:23-4:7. He came and left court without looking at the victims or any former members of his congregation. The Baltimore Sun has an interesting article on the new law: Regardless of the law on the matter, I agree with you that the church should have immediately reported the allegation to law enforcement. It has come to our attention that allegations of inappropriate conduct have been made against Cameron Giovanelli, a member of our staff. It remains to be seen if there is any legal recourse in this matter. Plaintiff states that Mr. Giovanelli worked in concert with the Church, that was led by "Greg Neal, the de facto sole leader," to "ensure their church, publishing company, and soon-opening college would not suffer financially from this blemish on its record." Id. DUNDALK, MD. (Pacific) Sunday; Morning Service 10:30 am; Evening Service 6:00 pm; The church enabled this behavior by giving the man a second chance. Sadly, the IFB church movement tends to be a shameless lot, and the latest escapades of Neal and Giovanelli only reinforce that notion. Until 2017, the statute of limitations on child sexual abuse was age 25. Cameron and Sarah Giovanelli have three children. Sarah Jackson addressed her abuser, former Baptist pastor Cameron Giovanelli, during his sentencing in Maryland. Tell a friend! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVLn59Ujg-o, Or, you can youtube Response by Pastor Stacey Shiflett to North Valley Baptist Church. faith baptist church wildomar lawsuit. 39. When I was a Christian, I still suffered and went for therapy to talk and to get help with feeling what was really troubling me. A defamation lawsuit has been filed against Cameron Giovanelli, his wife, Sarah Giovanelli, and Immanuel Baptist Church by survivor Sarah Jackson. Morality comes from a love for Life! From vicious personal attacks to death threats, these fine Christians are more concerned with protecting the brand than doing what is right. cameron giovanelli north valley baptist church. Even if they didnt publically go after giovanelli, it doesnt mean they didnt think he was guilty. He may never be able to pastor another church again, and Im sure those who he is rebuking will come after him for retribution in some way or shape. Keep your own life clean God is the real judge! 2001 - Dunn's Chapel Church, South Congaree, SC. I have posted hundreds of Black Collar Crimes stories over the last eighteen months. at 3 14, 7 30. I have family who attends this church and they, to this day, are not sure of what happened beyond what appeared in the newspaper. After graduating from Bible college, Cameron Giovanelli served as a youth pastor for several years in Napa, CA; as an associate pastor in Manteca, California; and then, as a pastor in the fall of 2003. [Thanks] for saving his life and saving his ministry . What, did all our accrued knowledge disappear the moment we walked/ran away from Christianity? During the course of that investigation, Cameron Giovanelli tendered his resignation to the ministry and his resignation has been accepted. All you know about Jesus is what little is said about him in the gospels and what preachers have been saying about him for the past 2,000 years. Friday, May 11 - The victim outed Cameron Giovanelli for sexually abusing her when he was pastor of Calvary Baptist Church in Dundalk, MD and she was a 16-year old student in their . But I feel horrible and try to make it right and change things. The other sad thing is I have looked at the law in Maryland and because 16 is the age of consent there, the only thing that he could likely be charged with is for him maintaining a relationship with someone under 18 in which he had an authority position over. I suspect you are about to discover that your religious overlords are going to dump on you, to use Jesus himself to harm you. With this plea agreement, 10 of those counts will be dropped. June 2018 | DBC teens attending youth conference at North Valley Baptist Church. cameron giovanelli, the president of golden state baptist college an independent fundamentalist baptist (ifb) institution operated by pastor jack trieber and north valley baptist church in santa clara, california, stands accused of repeatedly sexually assaulting a church teenager when he was the pastor of calvary baptist church in dundalk, . Huh? a principal, coach, teacher, or counselor whos at least 21 years old, employed by the school, and was in a supervisory position over the student), https://statelaws.findlaw.com/maryland-law/maryland-rape-and-sexual-assault-laws.html. Church Communications; North Florida Baptist College. It is for this reason, that I continue to post Black Collar Crime stories, regardless of the threats and abuse hurled my way. Still, I have to object to the false idea that being saved changes people essentially from sinners to something else. Shiflett: I am very grateful for some very positive results today. https://brucegerencser.net/2015/01/does-the-bible-say-thou-shalt-not-judge/. IMMANUEL BAPTIST CHURCH, SARAH GIOVANELLI, and CAMERON GIOVANELLI, Defendants. You can email Bruce via the Contact Form. Giovanelli is a former pastor at Calvary Baptist Church in Dundalk. Miller Valley Baptist Church, Prescott, WI. In my 65 years of life it has been my experience that religion harms, that it is the world champion liar of all liars. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Giovanelli and went on to make Bro. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features Press Copyright Contact us Creators . In early 2020, he was convicted in Maryland on charges of 4th degree sexual offense and 2nd degree assault. Cameron Giovanelli. ( NFBC ), https://brucegerencser.net/2019/05/black-collar-crime-pastor-cameron-giovanelli-resurrects-from-the-dead-found-in-florida/, Jack Trieber protected one of his graducates. 16. There were no allegations of wrongdoing of any nature that involved the ministries of North Valley Baptist Church or Golden State Baptist College. Cameron Giovanelli, the president of Golden State Baptist College an Independent Fundamentalist . Had to be such a miserable life. Those accused of crimes are innocent until proven guilty. As of the writing of this post, no criminal charges have been filed. (WJZ) Cameron Giovanelli, a former Baptist preacher, was quiet and subdued as he entered guilty pleas to a fourth-degree sex offense and second-degree assault on Wednesday. Immanuel Baptist Church et al (3:20-cv-01060), Florida Middle District Court, Filed: 09/22/2020 - PacerMonitor Mobile Federal and Bankruptcy Court PACER Dockets . But, abusers dont stop until they are made to stop. 42-year-old Cameron Giovanelli has been charged with sexual abuse of a minor, perverted practice, and fourth-degree sexual offense. Colne Times Obituaries This Week. In recent months, Giovanelli has surfaced at Harvest Baptist Church in Fort Dodge. No shame, indeed. Im not , for many reasons, a fan of IFB beliefs and practices. Cameron Giovanelli pastored Calvary Baptist Church in Dundalk, MD from 2004 to 2014. Explore Audible Audible Plus Gifts Help center About Audible Blog You can read more about Neals brush with the law here and here. North Valley Baptist Church was established in 1975 with a small band of 75 people. Imagine how much better it might be for sexual abuse victims if their pastors not only listened to them but acted morally, ethically, decently, and responsibly on their behalf. I trust that as time goes on, you will accept the simple reality that we are just people, not born in sin or born bad or fallen from grace, just people who sometimes need help from ourselves and one another. Funny how, again like he wasnt a true x-tian believers say they pray for healing for the abuser, his family and -oh yes I nearly forgot, the victim too. Ask any abuse survivor, however spiritual and close to god they were before the abuse and they will say they have never got over it, its affected or ruined their lives for many decades. After the guilty pleas, his attorney took him out of another exit. Friday, May 11 - The victim outed Cameron Giovanelli for sexually abusing her when he was pastor of Calvary Baptist Church in Dundalk, MD and she was a 16-year old student in their private school. Not that these crimes are anything new, they are not. Criminal charges were filed last Thursday morning by Sarah Jackson. You really could give yourself more credit and stand freely as you are, a strong woman who decided to manage her excess. December 5, 2019. August 22, 2020. In a Local church who is supposed to get paid. Mgh Medical Records Release Form, Engaging in a sexual act, sexual contact, or vaginal sex with a child under 18 who at the time of the sexual activity was a student enrolled in a school where the person was in a position of authority (i.e. He and Greg Neal are opening a college in Florida. God has greatly blessed the ministry of our pastor. Defendant Immanuel Baptist Church shall have up to and including 11/23/2020 to respond to the Complaint (Doc. Source: https://www.messengernews.net//judge-lowers-bond-amount-f/ Not only NVBC, as Im sure u know. Hot brucegerencser.net 076: Defamation Lawsuit Filed Against Cameron Giovanelli, Sarah Giovanelli, and Immanuel Baptist Church Show Details 24min 52s. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist. North Valley Baptist is an independent fundamental Baptist church with a 3,000-seat auditorium and an affiliated Bible college. She was 17, trembling and numb, while he was 29, married with children. Police say an associate pastor at the church became suspicious. That said, all that matters on this issue is that the victim finds healing and the perpetrator is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. North Valley Baptist Church. No one in their right mind would willingly bring such scrutiny and pain upon themselves for a lie. According to the statement of facts read aloud in court, the former preacher of Calvary Baptist Church in Dundalk had a months-long sexual relationship with a 17-year-old student at the church's school. Havent been on for years, but have been studying with Jews for Jesus weekly Bible Study which has been wonderful. Together, the Giovanelli family has seen the Lord work in remarkable ways, and they are excited about this next phase of their ministry life. Giovanelli seem like a victim instead of the perp he is. Again, in most states, the relationship, legally, could not have been consensual. I understand the desire/need to bury abuse and move on. Cameron Giovanelli, the president of Golden State Baptist College an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) institution operated by Pastor Jack Trieber and North Valley Baptist Church in Santa Clara, California, stands accused of repeatedly sexually assaulting a church teenager when he was the pastor of Calvary Baptist Church in Dundalk, (AP) The former pastor of an independent, fundamentalist Baptist church in Maryland has admitted to assaulting a 17-year-old. Asking. Search for "North Valley Baptist Church" within the Boxcast app. Now, with the announcement of North Florida Baptist College, Cameron Giovanelli has been asked and has accepted the role of president. there is no discernment in what you read. Christ came to set people free FROM religion. Reacting to North Valley Baptist Church "Camp Meeting" Pastor's Conference (PB LIVE 06/19/21) Show Details 1hr 44min. She originally wasnt going to press charges but because NVBC mishandled the situation on their live stream with their statement,she pressed charges Thursday morning. Shiflett is out, though he doesnt yet seem to know it. Id hate to see bitterness from this consume her. Website. The jerk is still there. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Request Information. Schedule of Live Streaming Services. Ok first of our Pastor Shiflett is not out to whoever said that Giovanelli was once an associate pastor for Immanuel. That's like a slap on the wrist. Said it accomplished its purpose. Is Saving a Horse by Riding a Cowboy a Sin? Cameron is a resident of 2129 Amberwood Lanes, San Jose, CA 95132-1104. As horrible as the situation is they really did everything that they legally could given he wasnt actually convicted of a crime (yet). I know several that have done this and it irks me a little. On a side note I happen to be an IFB Christian but I hope you will find that I have been quite civil and pleasant even in disagreeing with you. IFB preachers love exposing the pedophile scandal in the Catholic church. In feeling, in allowing myself to feel and to talk about that in my family history (child of preacher) I was finally free to say goodbye to church, to faith, to sin, to all the sick ideas of religious indoctrination. Shiflett, as you can imagine, has received a flood of emails, comments, etc. If convicted, Giovanelli faced up to thirty-six years in prison. Im not saying that the evidence isnt compelling or that she isnt believed because I believe her, but that doesnt mean that the church can publicakky convict or punish him outside of a court of law. So so sad. Home. Sun Valley Baptist Church. Soon after Jackson's public accusation, North Valley . Instead, abuse victims are often told to shut-up or are blamed for what happened. Brian knew Christianity for many, many years, as did I. In World War 1, the first country Germany invaded was Belgium and France. Statement by Pastor Stacey Shiflett in response to the allegations of sexual misconduct against Cameron Giovanelli. . And I commend the man for speaking out the way he did and as far our church burying him has more love and support then ever before! Valley Baptist Church Mesa, AZ Richard Donnelly, a bus driver at Valley Baptist Church in Mesa, Arizona, was arrested in July 2018 and charged with child molestation and sexual abuse. A new lawsuit obtained by News4Jax accuses Cameron Giovanelli -- an ex-Maryland pastor who once pleaded guilty to sex offenses -- of defamation. All first-time comments are moderated. Please keep our ministry, the Giovanelli family and all others involved in your prayers. He is also survived by 5 . During the course of that investigation, Cameron Giovanelli tendered his resignation to the ministry and his resignation has been accepted. Serving Him is my top priority n life. The opportunity to work hands-on in the bus ministry was such an amazing privilege. She mentions the fact in a public post on her facebook page. 1). Upstate New York Serial Killer Slaughterhouse, Download file | Play in new window | Duration: 39:26 | Recorded on October 25, 2022. Mary Lou Retton Daughters, I dont have a potty mouth. I just have a larger vocabulary than you. The victim came forward 10 years after the assault and prosecutors moved forward with a 12-count indictment. Your sin will ALWAYS find you out. The pastor is the CEO. Currently, Cameron Giovanelli works as a Pastor and Principal at Calvary Baptist Church. LOVE and SEX!!! Register today to secure your spot. North Valley Baptist Church has a history of this behavior. A ministry of North Valley Baptist Church in Santa Clara, CA. He is charged with sexually abusing. Cameron Giovanelli was born on June 29, 1977. It is very common in religion to do what you are doing and speaking as if Christians deserve a good name. If convicted, Giovanelli faces up to thirty-six years in prison. Regarding Death Threats Received June 22, 2021 . !KNOWING THAT THE WORLD IS NOT PERFECT!!!!!! Friday, May 11 - The victim outed Cameron Giovanelli for sexually abusing her when he was pastor of Calvary Baptist Church in Dundalk, MD and she was a 16-year old student in their . (WJZ) Cameron Giovanelli, a former Baptist preacher, was quiet and subdued as he entered guilty pleas to a fourth-degree sex offense and second-degree assault on Wednesday. Upon receipt of the notice of the allegations, we immediately placed him on administrative leave of all activities and responsibilities, to conduct a thorough and honest investigation. Does anyone know any updates. I love The Lord. You clearly believe that your faith has helped you to be open and truthful. Most pastors would not do what he did, so he deserves a lot of credit for doing the right thing. 2016 Catholic Priest Rev. The internet has also played a big part in keeping these men from leaving town under a cloud of suspicion, only to show up on the other side of the country pastoring a new church. That pastor trying to do his own investigation like that is almost like a random guy walking up on a murder scene and trying to investigate it for evidence before the police arrive. He was saved on September 20, 1990, while living in Rohnert Park, CA. And the jerk will sin again and harm someone. / CBS Baltimore. Easter Sunday 2017 with the Schmidt family . Robin and 4 children, Hope, Cameron, Francisco and Shanette; and 14 grandchildren. I do wish hed involved the police as well, but what Pastor Shiflett has done, in context of the culture of the IFB and other such conservative cult-churches, is fairly ballsy. As with Jack Schaaps victim, IFB zealots will say the victim seduced Giovanelli; that she was a willing participant; that she is in it for the money. 2 months after Jordan Webb was arrested at his home & charged with second-degree sexual abuse with a minor, registered sex offender Cameron Giovanelli performed a Sunday AM music special at Harvest Baptist Church in Fort Dodge, IA. Update on Cameron Giovanelli-Today, justice was served. Following his graduation, he attended Golden State Baptist College where he met his wife, Sarah, and they both graduated in 2000. A couple things people should realize before bashing nvbcs statement is that they had to be very careful about how they worded their statement in order to avoid a potential lawsuit. faith baptist church wildomar lawsuit. I received an email from Pastor Shiflett about this post. Gay is a Hyles loyalist, and has stood by several IFB preachers accused of sexual misconduct. Thats fine if you dont want to give them a pass but all Im saying is seeing as the incident didnt occur there and was in another state, they did all that they legally were allowed to do. I delight n preaching revivals & I'm the passionate pastor of Emmaus! Giovanelli is still on staff at NVBC. FIT WELL!!!!!! With a few significant adjustments, I wish we had more people like him on our side. This video is a response to the official statement of North Valley Baptist Church posted on their website and made from their pulpit on Wednesday, May 16th. The evidence is overwhelming that Evangelicalism has a huge problem with pastors, missionaries, deacons, and other church leaders committing sex crimes. I do give Shiflett props for speaking up. North Valley Publications is a small publisher that specializes in books on Christian living and Church leadership. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist. 3530 De La Cruz Blvd. judah friedlander hat translation cameron giovanelli north valley baptist church The victim sued the church. Im divorced from public opinion. Giovanelli is out on bond. Source Brian Clay Gray Anchor Baptist Church Filed Under: Baltimore County, Cameron Shane Giovanelli, Dundalk, Local TV, Maryland, Maryland News, Sexual abuse, Talkers DUNDALK, MD. I know you reject what I am saying and have to judge me as of the devil but I encourage you to continue to get help regarding your addiction and to try to find your way to the original reasons for it. All responsibilities of any nature whatsoever, were permanently and immediately terminated with receipt of his resignation. His Independent Baptist empire was built on a foundation of scandals and cover ups that infected nearly every circle of the IFB movement, and continues to this day. Its GDP in 2015 was 168.2 billion (US$190.5 billion) [6] while its per . The official radio app for KNVBC Revival Radio. Copyright 2023 The Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser Powered by Flywheel. You can give securely and schedule your giving online. Former members of Hopewell Baptist Church are questioning the church's response to allegations of sexual . I am a researcher and writer at Watch Unto Prayer which I started 25 years ago. So they had to be careful about what they said. . According to testimony from Webster County Attorney's Office Investigator Larry Hedlund, Webb had also been driving Giovanelli's car that week. Welcome to Church Finder - the best way to find Christian churches in Durham NC. My opinions are well known in the IFB community. Brother Tony, I read your reply on Anderson, I know you all think I'm argumentative but, when you don't agree..the first thought I had is, I wish you would introduce me to the guy that hasn't sinned, maybe David, that had a man killed so he could commit adultery, yet, he was & is a man after Gods own heart, or maybe Paul the guy that persecuted and had Christians killed, or maybe Richg or Kent H, or even you !
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